After spending about an hour reading the threads related to this subject, I remain confused as to what the current rule is for 2011. Specifically, my question is: Can a “G/30” tournament which advertises that digital clocks will be set at G/25 with a 5-second delay be dual-rated under current USCF rules?
It appears that the delegates passed a rule prohibiting G/25, TD/5 time controls from being regular rated effective January 1, 2011. Other posts indicate that the ruling was postponed to take effect January 1, 2012.
On a related matter, at least one post indicated that a G/30 tournament required a G/30, TD/5 digital clock setting unless all tournament advertising stated otherwise (e.g., “G/30, no delay”). I would also like clarification on this point.
This is somewhat time critical as we will be running some rated quads this week and want to comply with the requirements for dual rating.
While there are clearly many opinions both for and against delay settings and the 5-minute deduction approach, those have been vetted in other threads. I guess what I’m saying is that a straight answer on the two points would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance to all the TDs who have to deal with this trivia on a regular basis.
Yes, G/30 tournaments that advertise digital clocks be set for G/25, delay-5 will be dual-rated throughout this year. The rule change that eliminates the option to deduct main clock time to compensate for delay takes effect on Jan. 1, 2012—though that could change at the Delegates Meeting this summer.
There is no requirement to advertise the time deduction to compensate for delay. It must be announced at the tournament site before round one—and should also be prominently posted—but it need not be advertised in advance. Check the Rulebook.
Some of the confusion about this stems from last year’s Delegates Meeting. The Delegates approved a motion to abolish the time-deduction-for delay option on the first day of the two-day meeting. That would have taken effect on 1/1/11—standard practice for policy and rules changes. (takes effect Jan. 1 of the following year)
The next day, after lobbying by fierce opponents of the motion, the Delegates delayed implementation until 2012. The Scholastic, Rules and Ratings committees are supposedly working on tweaks to the motion that passed last year.
So, if you advertised a G/30 tournament and want digital clocks set for G/25, delay-5, all you need do is post and announce that at the playing site. Some players will assume that’s what is expected of them, in any case—especially if this a scholastic event or in certain parts of the country where deducting time is SOP, such as New Jersey.
The event will be Dual-rated if it is reported correctly to USCF. As far as I know all you need report for the time control is “G/30.” Mike Nolan will no doubt jump in here if that is wrong.
There is a truth-in-advertising problem when games are played at different controls depending on whether the clock is delay-capable.
To meet tight scheduling requirements, it has become traditional in many areas to hold regular-rated (dual-rated) “G/30” events which are actually played at G/25 whenever a delay-capable clock is in use.
To solve both of these problems, the Delegates (and ratings committee, etc) really, really need to consider a solution along the following lines:
A G/25 event is regular-rated (dual-rated), but only if a 5-second delay is specifically announced in all pre-event publicity. (e.g. “G/25 d/5”)
In such an event, games played on clocks without delay capability are still played at G/25. These games, despite the lack of delay, are still regular-rated (dual-rated).
In other words, as long as the announced time control for the tournament is G/25 d/5, games played without the delay are still played at G/25 and are still regular-ratable. (Of course, a delay clock would be a preferred clock, just as it is in “normal” tournaments.)
I don’t see how any other solution is even reasonable.
Bill, perhaps this question has already been answered, but could you answer how a tournament with dual rated time control for first 2 rounds =say G/30 and Regular time control for next two rounds, say G/70 be rated. Can the USCF rating software handle this?
“If there are multiple schedules for a round, or if not all rounds use the same time control, in general the slowest time control used for any game in any round determines whether the event can be regular rated only, dual-rated, or quick rated only.”
“Here’s the complicated part: If some rounds are faster than 30 minutes per player and other rounds are 30 minutes or more per player, then you must break the event into two sections for rating purposes. The rounds played at time controls faster than 30 minutes would be quick-rated only, the others would be dual-rated or regular-rated, depending upon the slowest time control for any of those rounds.”
Your example isn’t completely clear, but it seems to me that you would have a choice - either rate all games as just regular or submit as 2 events - the first 2 rounds in one as dual and the remaining rounds in the other as regular. Personally, I would submit it only as regular as the factors of bonus points and titles would seem to me to be more significant than the dual rating.
I agree that the USCF rates a lot of quick tournaments, or at least uses quick ratings to rate a lot of tournaments. The question is how many people use quick ratings for pairings and prizes? I do, but I’m not sure who else does.
My club does a few quick-rated events each year (G/10 SS, G/15 SS, and G/29 quads). Some players will play in those and not our G/90 events because they feel the club is under-rated and at least the quick events will not risk hitting their regular rating.
Mike Nolan has previously given counts of events at various entered time controls and <G/30 seems to have been a noticeable number if my memory is correct.
Based on the FAQ text, it appears that CoachBob’s example would be two sections w/in one event (1 section for dual rating, 1 section for regular only rating), not two events.
Personally I wouldn’t play in such an event (R1-2 G/30, R3-4 G/70), but not because I’m a dual/regular ratings purist. The large difference in time controls is just too strange and it’s almost like playing a different game.
Then there our tournaments with merging schedules where the primary schedule might be 7-SS with 40/2,SD/1 while a second schedule has rounds 1-2 at G/75 with a round 3 merge and a third schedule has rounds 1-4 at G/40 with a round 5 merge.
The rule should just say that “d/5” is standard (it already does, actually) and that when a delay clock is not available then 5 minutes would be ADDED. Make this addition REQUIRED, not optional, when playing without a delay clock unless specifically announced in the TLA and pre-tournament publicity. (I’d bet you’d almost never see one of these announcements!)
I think few people would complain about getting MORE time, but you’ll always have people complain about a non-standard subtraction of time (which is the situation we have now).
Then there’s really no reason to not allow G/25 d/5 to be rated (it’s the same situation we have now, really), but don’t accept G/25 unless there’s either a delay or an addition. Why would that be such a big problem?
Then we’d have consistency. “G/25” would always mean “G/25 + d/5”. The organizer would have to make a special announcement for it to mean G/25 with no delay and THEN it couldn’t be regular rated.
More to the point, “G/60” would always mean “G/60 + d/5”, and not sometimes mean that and other times mean “G/55 + d/5”.
I dislike a 5-minute addition almost as much as a 5-minute deduction. One problem would be that some players would deliberately furnish obscolescent equipment just to get that “extra” 5 minutes.
Make that “unless there is a delay”, period. As long as the announced (or default) control for the event is G/25 d/5, all games should be regular-rateable, including those played at G/25 with no delay.
I agree with you in principle, but you have apparently overlooked a small technical problem. It would not be obvious whether a TLA advertising “G/25” would mean G/25 d/5 regular-rated, or G/25 d/3 quick-rated. By contrast, G/29 almost certainly would be interpreted as G/29 d/3 quick-rated.
I’ll concede, however, that instead of requiring an explicit “d/5” in the TLA, an explicit “regular-rated” (actually “dual-rated”) would serve the same purpose.
Do not change the cutoff for Quick rating. It stays “G/30”.
Do change the default for delay. All time controls by default include
5 second delay, unless specifically announced otherwise.
A tournament’s eligibility for Quick, Regular, or Dual rating is irrespective of whether a delay is used, as long as the delay is 5 seconds or less.
So G/30 is eligible for regular rating, irrespective of delay. Unless announced otherwise, G/30 means G/30 with a 5 second delay. G/25 is not, irrespective of delay.
This proposal makes absolute perfect sense, is clear and unambiguous, and it is the way it should be.
Of course, due to politics and interests, it’s not going to happen.
The Marshall Chess Club, among others, has been running 4 round G/30 dual-rated tournaments in the evenings. They’re actually run at G/25 D/5, and they’re very closely scheduled so that players can make certain subway schedules and late trains. They would like to continue this unchanged.