Wondering if you can give me your opinion of the following that happened at a tournament I was directing in Maine on 12/14/13:
In the last round of a U1000 section the player of the black pieces in a game marked the pairing sheet 0-1 indicating he had won the game. Results were tabulated and awards were handed out. The next day when the USCF crosstable was posted the player of the white pieces contacted me to tell me there had been a mistake and that white actually won the game. I asked the player of the black pieces again and he again said that he had won the game and described the checkmate to me. A nine-year-old witness told me she asked the player of the black pieces immediately after the game how it went and the player said, “I won.”
I am about to let both players know that the result will stand but I wanted to run it by another TD to see if I might be missing considering something.
Waiting until the next day is too long to dispute a result. Further, White has no proof. Even if white brings you a completed score sheet now it does not mean that is the scoresheet from the game. IF black has a completed score sheet then you have the classic “she said, he said” dilemma. And then you have a witness. As long as the 9yo is not related to either player then you have some support. If the 9 yo is related then that witness needs to be discounted.
Rule 15H emphasizes that reporting of results is the responsibility of both players, so the white player is already in a bit of a pickle. If he did win the game, why didn’t he report it?
In the absence of any significant evidence, the result stands. The black player has, as evidence, the mark on the pairing chart, the fact that he claims to be able to reconstruct a checkmate, and a witness who says that he claimed a win at the time of the end of the game.
The white player has ------- what, exactly? I think a 24 hour old claim, after failing to report the result correctly, unbacked by any evidence.
If he can present some evidence, then maybe, but it would have to be pretty darned strong. If there were two eyewitnesses and a scoresheet, then maybe.
Result marked on a pairing sheet. No scoresheets for proof of a difference. Report the next day. Unbiased witness, even if nine years old. Pretty clear cut. The result stands as marked.
This type of occurrence is among the reasons players are always told to check results, to write all of their moves down on a scoresheet, and to see the TD immediately if there is a problem. Let’s assume that the player requesting relief did have a complete scoresheet with the correct result. Can the result be changed? Is he too late to get relief? We can change some circumstances through hypotheticals, but where is the line where he can get relief or not?
I can show up the next day with a complete scoresheet showing anything I want it to show.
It is different when I was taking notation and have a complete scoresheet right after the game ended and I noticed the incorrect result being recorded.
If it is a last round game, and all of the pairing sheets and crosstables have been pulled down, the awards given, tables and chairs put away, the player might not become aware of the mistake until the next day or two when the rating report is posted and he sees his result/rating change. That kind of thing happens. At best, I think you can get the final rating result corrected after proper investigation. The prize has already been given, and the player should not expect to get that changed.
Check your result. Don’t expect the other person to mark it correctly. Both players should go to the pairing sheet and make sure the result is scored properly.
Isn’t your daughter also a TD? Keep in mind also that the witness didn’t witness Black win the game, she just witnessed Black claim to have won the game. This is not surprising (that Black would claim this) because he reported the score as 0-1.
It does not look like either of his two daughters are TDs.
Sometimes results are mis-reported or mis-entered. When it is an entry error I let the office know and they correct it. When it is a reporting error I check for verification from the other player that it is an error, and if it is then I let the office know so that it is corrected for ratings.
At scholastic tournaments the discrepancies are usually due to a kid not wanting to admit to losing when reporting the result to a parent, but is still sometimes due to confusion when reporting the result.
There was a case some time back at another TD’s event (final round) where one player marked up a win on the results sheet, the other player marked up a draw on the pairing sheet, and both players then left. In that particular case the player marking up the draw thought that a handshake was for a draw while the other player thought it was for conceding the win. When going over the game the next day (after the TD asked what the result really was) the player who marked the draw saw just how bad his position really was and accepted the loss.
My second daughter has an expired TD certification. The daughter that was told “I won,” is not a TD.
Also it is not possible that both players won at different boards because they were playing each other at the same board during the same round.
They were SCHEDULED to play each other at the same board during the same round. Whether or not they actually did is something that would need to be verified (which might be easy to do if you can remember actually seeing them play each other). I’ve known even 20-something players to sit down at the wrong board. At this year’s Chicago Open there was an adult who sat down in the wrong section and played for about an hour before the person scheduled to play at that board actually arrived.
In the absence of a completed scoresheet signed by BOTH PLAYERS, you don’t have a lot of evidence to change the result, especially that late after the game ended.
This is why signed results slips are used at major scholastic events, with BOTH players reporting to the scoring desk after a game is completed. Even that doesn’t completely eliminate the possibility of claims of mis-reported games.
Rule 15I tells you errors can occur in reporting of results and should be corrected, especially for rating purposes. However, it may be unfair to the other competitors to correct them for prize purposes if rounds have proceeded with the harmed player gaining the benefit of being in an easier score group for subsequent pairings. So even if you had hard evidence of the error, you have discretion to give or deny remedy in terms of prize eligibility, but you should post the most accurate ratings possible based on the real result.
In your case, it’s simply a fact finding exercise. The 3rd party testimony is hearsay, but it wasn’t really probative anyway. If he doctored the result, he continued the act by saying he won. Absent scoresheets or a neutral witnesses that saw the actual result on the board, there is nothing to contradict the recorded result. I’d be skeptical of a surprise unknown witness.
The player can appeal, and you should hear the appeal. It’s possible that when they both get in front of you that they’ll look at each other and say “I didn’t play him” and then you’ll have some fun. Or maybe one of them will crater and make an admission. Also, I feel a TD has a duty to ask for all the evidence. If player A says “white won” and player B says “black won” and the result sheet says black won, then you can ask player A what evidence he has and if he has nothing, you counsel him on the value of keeping score and the folly of not following rule 15H.
Years ago we had a well known “skunk” who took his ill-deeds to
a Southeastern tournament. He claimed that the results were reported incorrectly, and to “prove” it, pulled out a falsified score
sheet. He had the misfortune, however, in being nabbed because
his opponent had a signed scoresheet showing opposite results. In
terms of credibility, he had a prior reputation as a skunk from many
USCF events, and why his opponent, who just so happened to be
a player that day, was a very prominent, trusted, and respected
USCF tournament director and organizer. Many have made the mistake assuming TDs do not communicate with each other. News Flash–we do.
I just remembered that I won all my games at the my last tournament. I’m going to call the TD about my first place prize and my 140 point rating gain.
At a scholastic event that I was TD, a draw was reported. A father stormed in with a sheepish son in tow. “The result is incorrect! My son would never accept a draw!! He has been trained to always fight for the win!!! The result must be changed!!!” I asked if there was a score sheet. “A score sheet is unnecessary!!! My son has given me his word that he won!!!”
One of my assistant’s dug something out of the bottom of a waste basket. His son’s score sheet with his son’s signature on it, and the word ‘Draw’ circled.
Big Daddy turned and pivoted leaving the room with son in tow without a word.
I’ve heard several comparable anecdotes here. Fortunately, I haven’t experienced it. It’s sad. I feel sorry for the kid, and I hope he manages to break that cycle so that his own kids don’t have to suffer through similar treatment.
How is it that a rated game was conducted without either player keeping score? If they can record 0-1 they should also be able to string together a few alphabets.
