I have been part of the sales at 2 major chess tournaments where they have tried banning chess score books in the playing hall. I am not sure if this has been gone through in the forums before, but I would like to get some opinions on this.
As a vendor score books are like milk and meat to a grocery store. People are always coming in to buy them and they usually buy something else at check out with them. They are great for us.
Some TD’s are telling us they are worried that people will cheat by looking up old games they played to get an advantage. To me it would be VERY obvious if they did this and very easily caught. Anyone else have other opinions?
I think it is a specious argument. If the organizer wants all score sheets turned in then by all means require the use of supplied score sheets. But otherwise???
The issue is much more that a cheater will use an electronic means.
No need for an organizational ban on score books, but providing and requiring the use of standard score sheets is an internationally recognized best organizational practice for good reason.
Like your score book or Monroi? Fine. Enter the game score from the standard score sheet after the game.
We aren’t FIDE. Three is a distinct difference between the local club or scholastic event and high level GM heavy international events. FIDE seems to lack a fundamental understanding of this.
I have a problem with the hardbound chess scorebooks, and it pertains to this part of rule 15A:
Those who use hardbound scorebooks almost always violate this rule. Hardbound scorebooks are usually kept closed with a pencil bookmark between moves, and kept in the player’s lap when s/he is writing the move before making it. The hardbound books don’t stay open, and I think that’s why many players choose them, so they can write the move first and conceal it from the opponent as long as possible. I see this a lot with kids, who are also more likely to write/erase/write/erase (analyze) on the scoresheet before moving.
Spiral-bound scorebooks that lay flat on the table do not present as much of an issue, though those can still be used in a player’s lap. I use a half-size clipboard and loose notation sheets when I’m playing. That, too, could rest in my lap, but I think I usually leave it on the table if I have space to do so, and I certainly leave it on the table when I’m between moves.
The national scholastics have tournament booklets with pages having scoresheets for each round (printed on both sides so that one page would have different rounds on each side). Prohibiting any type of scorebooks would necessitate changing that (maybe double the number of pages for scoresheets and make them perforated so that they can be detached?).
One gain would be that previous games with that opening could not be checked.
One loss would be a greater chance of misplacing a loose scoresheet.
I’m not sure how tournament booklets and scoresheets are handled at the World Youth.
I agree with you. There’s no legitimate reason for a player to be paging through a scoreboard during play, which is what would be needed to reference prior games. So it would be pretty obvious if a player were doing it.
Agreed. A teammate at USATE ran into this exact problem. His junior opponent kept the book in his lap and during the opening was flipping through pages. Yes, the TD was called, the player warned and the behavior corrected, but why allow a book whose design essentially runs counter to the rules (scoresheet visible throughout game)? Banning the hardcover book from playing hall is not the same as banning sales of it (I’m sure it is a nice way to record games for posterity / future study). I’m just more confused as to how this form factor became so popular, over the much more useful (and less expensive) spiral lay flat scorepads. It’s like an analog chess clock that doesn’t have a flag becoming the norm in tournament play.
Please – lets look at the spirit of the game. This is a ridiculous thread, and the posts above are even more
ridiculous. Clearly, a hard bound book better preserves games, which most decent players would like to go
over at a future time and date. Actually, VERY few players cheat. Get REAL. This whole thread should be called another thread for the lazy tournament director not willing to do their due diligence. For I they are,
this entire thread is a waste of time. Simple as that.
That’s a very cogent argument, you have almost convinced me. I would like to clarify that I wouldn’t be in favor of a ban of these books at the USCF level since I typically prefer to give individuals directly affected by a situation to have the say in what happens. I would have no issue if a TD at a real tournament (not just club players that all know each other) advertised in advance that these scorebooks could not be used. Most players wouldn’t cheat, but I don’t think a TD is being lazy if he doesn’t want players to diddle on tablets or listen to voicemail while waiting for their opponent to move. There’s a customer satisfaction issue at the other end of the table - a tournament is a much more pleasant experience when you don’t need to get the TD to address misbehavior.
The issue that seems to be unaddressed is that the hard cover books, by the way they are designed, violate the scoresheet must be visible rule. It requires a player to keep a hand on the page at all times, or bring along a paperweight or the like to force the pages open. How many do that?
Are there other examples of rules that are ignored because of the popularity of the equipment in the tournament scene?
There is no requirement to advertise in advance. The organizer may specify the scoresheet to be used by the plain language of either the US Chess or FIDE rule sets. Period.
For the record, I did not say I favored banning hardbound scorebooks. I simply pointed out why I don’t like them, and I cited the already-existing USCF rule that their users tend to violate. Mine is a different objection from the “looking back at old games for reference” issue.
I think 15a takes care of my issue with hardbound scorebooks quite well, so no new rule is needed. Other USCF rules address concerns around cheating by looking back at previous games. All that said, as a TD, I would not recommend hardbound scorebooks to players; that’s not the same thing as banning them.
As for the program/scorebooks given out at scholastic nationals, in practice those are usually folded over so the page in current use is on top and sitting on the table in plain view. If a player pages back to look at another game, it will be obvious to the opponent.
Sure, there are rules and claims and rulings, but there are also best practices. Best practice IMO is scoresheet flat on the table where everyone can see it, with the move recorded after it’s made and after the clock is punched. That’s what I’d hope coaches are advising their players to do. Feel free to call me a lazy TD. I prefer to say I’m redirecting the focus off of the rules and onto the game being played.
Don’t the electronic score keeping devices go blank when not in use? Wouldn’t that violate the above?
Not so much as a TD but simply as an observer, I find it handy to walk up to a game and look at the position and then maybe glance at the score sheet to see the previous moves to see how they got there. You can’t do that with the electronic score keeping devices.
Technically it says scoresheet, not score. The scoresheet is visible even though the score is not. That way a person is still in compliance in a time scramble with a paper scoresheet still visible even though the person is no longer keeping score.