Increment Clock Settings

It’s been a long time since I’ve used increment, and I’m somewhat rusty on the settings.

Can someone remind me what settings would correspond to G/100 + 30 on

  1. The Chronos

  2. The North American DGT

  3. The blue Saitek (does that have a corresponding setting for increment?)

  4. I seem to recall that the Z-Mart did not do increment?

  5. The DGT 3000 (I recall there were two delay settings, Delay and US Delay; I’m wondering if there was something similar for increment).

    Thanks for your help in getting back up to speed.

Does this help?

pdxchess.org/wp-content/uploads/ … 0inc30.pdf

It’s what Micah Smith put together.

One of the CH-Pn modes, probably CH-P5 on most models.

Mode 14 is one time control with increment.

Sorry, I don’t know about the others. Look up posts by Micah Smith on this Running Tournaments forum and perhaps on the Issues forum. Micah has also written several extensive documents which should be widely available, if you can find the posts that point to these documents.

Does this mean you’re directing at the Chicago Open?

Bill Smythe

I will leave the messy details to Micah’s document (the link that Kevin posted), but I can say that the ZMart definitely does increment. I know because I bought one for that express purpose, and have used it in increment mode several times. I later found out that the old Chronos clock that I already had also does increment (although in a non-obvious way), and I have also acquired several DGT clocks – so I almost never use the ZMart anymore. But it does do increment.

If the time control states “a 30-second increment from Move 1,” why is that interpreted to mean "a 30-second increment before Move 1?

If each player receives a 30-second increment after pressing the clock, why is it also necessary to add the 30 extra seconds to the initial time control? If someone flags before receiving their 30 second increment, it would seem to be because they did not complete their move in time, in order to receive the increment.

Which Chronos, the longer or shorter one?

The blue Saitek does not do increment so one would have to substitute a 30 second delay if using this clock.

The Z-Mart clocks do increment but unless one has a new one that has the latest firmware, they only do increment in the awful “add-before” way. There were also multiple bugs in the Z-Mart clocks and I don’t know if an updated version that has fixed all the bugs has been released.

The DGT 3000 does not have two different types of increment settings.

Because US Chess and FIDE rules consider, for example, G/90;inc30 to be equivalent to G/120;d0 based on the “total playing time” each player gets for a game that lasts sixty moves. However, they are only equivalent if the increment is applied before move one.

The way I think of it is that each player gets 30 seconds per move, plus an additional X minutes total. If you think of it that way, it makes sense that you would get the 30 seconds for the first move.

On the other hand, you can also think of it as receiving an additional 30 seconds for each move completed. In that case, you would not get the 30 seconds for the first move.

But to me the first interpretation makes more sense. I leave it to people smarter than me to decide which is correct, if either.

The phrase “a 30-second increment from move 1” has a double meaning. Sometimes this phrase is used to mean simply that the increment is to be in effect throughout the game, as opposed to being in effect only in the final control (of a 2- or 3-control event).

A recent international event in Finland (or somewhere like that) advertised something like “40/120, then 20/60, then SD/60, with a 30-second increment in effect beginning with move 61.” This would mean that the increment is applied only to the 3rd time control, not to the 1st or 2nd.

Having increment only for the final control is an idea that is seriously deprecated by both FIDE and U.S. Chess. For example, U.S. Chess rule 5E1 states:

5E1. Increment or delay with mixed time controls. If a mixed time control includes increment or delay, the increment or delay should apply starting with the first move of the game, and the increment or delay time should be the same for all time control segments in the game.

For example, “40/90 SD/30 inc/30” should be interpreted to mean “40/90 inc/30 for the initial control, then SD/30 inc/30 for the final control”. The organizer could make this more clear by inserting a stronger separator between the final control and the increment than between the initial control and the final control, e.g. “40/90 SD/30; inc/30”. You could say that a semicolon is a stronger separator than a comma, which in turn is a stronger separator than a space.

If the organizer really intends to use the deprecated idea of increment only in the final control, he should write this as “40/90 d/0; SD/30 inc/30”, where “d/0” is a standard abbreviation for the (itself deprecated) idea of having neither increment nor delay.


And now for the “other” meaning of “a 30-second increment from move 1”. This is the meaning you are concerned about, apparently. And this gets a bit technical.

For purposes of comparing time controls with increment against time controls with no increment, both FIDE and U.S. Chess consider a game to consist of 60 moves. This is arbitrary, but reasonable (most games last less than 60 moves, but a few extend beyond that). With this convention, each second of increment time becomes “equivalent to” (perhaps “worth the same as” would be a better phrase) one minute of main time, because there are 60 seconds in a minute.

For example, G/60 inc/30 is regarded as “worth the same as” G/90 with no increment, when it comes to deciding whether a time control is allowable, and under which rating system.

There is (or was) a FIDE rule requiring that, if a tournament includes at least one Master, each game must allow at least 3 hours (90 minutes per player) in order to be FIDE regular-ratable. There is (or was) another FIDE rule that there can be no more than 12 hours of playing time (both players’ times combined) per day. This means, for example, that a 1-day 4-round tournament with a time control of G/60 inc/30 would just barely be FIDE regular-ratable. (FIDE rules mavens, please don’t jump on me if I haven’t stated these rules absolutely accurately. I’m simply addressing a different point here.)

The idea of one second of increment time being considered “equivalent to” one minute of main time also enters heavily into the U.S. Chess definitions of allowable time controls, which use the famous “mm+ss” formula (main time in minutes, plus increment time in seconds) to determine the legality of the tournament and the rating system that will be used. mm+ss must be at least 66 (regular), at least 11 (quick), or at least 5 (blitz). (Again, please don’t get on my case if these numbers are a little off.)


Assume a single control of G/60 inc/30. At the moment white’s clock is started, should the clock’s main time show 1:00:00, or 1:00:30?[b] Let’s say white uses exactly 90 seconds of thinking time on each move [/b](and that black moves faster than that, so that the possibility of black’s time expiring is not a factor). Then, after white plays his 59th move and presses the clock, since G/60 inc/30 is supposedly “equivalent to” G/90 with no increment, white should still have 90 seconds left to play his 60th move, right?

But let’s see what actually happens if the clock initially reads 1:00:00 when the game starts:

When white presses his clock after move 01 his time will jump from 0:58:30 to 0:59:00.
When white presses his clock after move 02 his time will jump from 0:57:30 to 0:58:00.
When white presses his clock after move 03 his time will jump from 0:56:30 to 0:57:00.
When white presses his clock after move 04 his time will jump from 0:55:30 to 0:56:00.
: : : :
: : : :
: : : :
When white presses his clock after move 56 his time will jump from 0:03:30 to 0:04:00.
When white presses his clock after move 57 his time will jump from 0:02:30 to 0:03:00.
When white presses his clock after move 58 his time will jump from 0:01:30 to 0:02:00.
When white presses his clock after move 59 his time will jump from 0:00:30 to 0:01:00.

White now has only 60 seconds, not 90, to play his 60th move. :frowning: Boo hiss. :frowning:

So, technically, white’s clock (and black’s) should read 1:00:30 when the game starts. Otherwise, each player is being cheated out of 30 seconds of main time.

Some clocks (e.g. DGT), understanding this concept, do add the 30 seconds for move 1 automatically. Others (e.g. Chronos) do not, so should be set manually to 1:00:30 rather than 1:00:00.

But is it really worth all the fuss? The grand total difference between the two settings is just 30 seconds of main time for each player. Mostly likely a tournament director would not want to rule a time forfeit claim invalid just because of an initial 30-second error that, after all, applied equally to both players.

Bill Smythe

Your first suggestion at interpretation is the better and more consistent of the two. Use Reductio ad absurdum. If our notation for the time control reflects our thinking, then G90;+30, or GX;+Y has a specific meaning.

This should be true for all non-negative X and Y, since it is possible to play games with all non-negative X and Y.

But now, as you say, consider G0;+Y. Under your first scenario it clearly has meaning. Under your second it is meaningless. And notationally, there would be no way, using this notation, to meaningfully denote a game played only with increment, although it’s clearly possible to play one.

Another way to frame it is - using a GX;+Y time control, how much time does a player have for move 1? Is it X? Or is it X+Y?

I most like Micah’s point though, about: “Because US Chess and FIDE rules consider, for example, G/90;inc30 to be equivalent to G/120;d0 based on the “total playing time” each player gets for a game that lasts sixty moves. However, they are only equivalent if the increment is applied before move one.” Which is also built out nicely by Bill Smythe.

Everything is simpler if we say, where X and Y are non-negative, time controls fit GX;+Y

+1

As long as either X>0 or Y>0, yes.

More than meaningless, it’s impossible, because in that case we must have X>0.

+1

+1

+1

Thank you.

Well, one or the other must be positive, else both flags are down from the start. But with the “wrong” interpretation, we would need, specifically, X>0.

Bill Smythe

I didn’t state the implicit assumption - that there must be SOME time for a game to be played, i.e. (x > 0) ∨ (y > 0)

There is one critical but fairly common scenario in which having the increment before move one matters–and it matters enough that adopting a default of adding increment before move one should apply.

90 minutes plus 30 seconds is a commonly used time control that meets FIDE ratability standards for all players. But it only meets this standard if each side has at least two hours to complete forty moves.

If increment is not added before move one, each player will have 119 minutes and 30 seconds to complete forty moves. 119:30 < 120:00.

Q: Does it really matter?

A: Yes. Lesser things have derailed rating reports and claimed norms.