"Israel" removed at World Youth

[Grayson]

It is being reported in various places that references to “Israel” and the Israeli flag have been removed at the the World Youth. If one goes to the official website, they will see that the Israeli players who were previously listed under their own country and flag, are now listed under a FIDE flag. It seems that there have been some withdrawals of the Israeli players.

This is unfortunate. We don’t know the facts at this point, but what is clear is that Israel was accorded the expected treatment at the start of the tournament, and then once underway, after the Israeli delegation was on site, and after other countries were also present, the references to Israel were removed. It will be important to hear what happened. It’s almost impossible to imagine an acceptable account being given.

[Meadmaker]

Thanks for this piece of news.

It’s tempting to fly off the handle about this without more information, but it seems that something very disturbing is going on here. In the absence of more information I won’t reach any conclusions, but whatever is going on, it can’t be good. I’m really hoping it’s just a simple “didn’t file the appropriate paperwork” issue, but in that part of the world, there are lots of more ominous possibilities.

I did a quick search of google news and of haaretz.com, and there wasn’t anything related to it. Whatever is going on it hasn’t broken into “real” news yet.

[davidacole]

Keep in mind that one of the USA Coaches, Aviv Friedman, was born and raised in
Israel, before moving here to the States.

David A. Cole, USCF Life Member, Franklin, NJ

[nolan]

Keep in mind that one of the USA Coaches, Aviv Friedman, was born and raised in
Israel, before moving here to the States.

How is that relevant?

[davidacole]

It could be a distraction, but hopefully it won’t be. Aviv has been known to
go back to Israel to see family, friends and probably does provide students
there with his knowledge of the game as well.

David A. Cole, USCF Life Member, Franklin, NJ

[Meadmaker]

Whatever the story is on this, it doesn’t seem to have made the “real” news.

[David_Ames]

@Grayson

It is being reported in various places that references to “Israel” and the Israeli flag have been removed at the the World Youth. If one goes to the official website, they will see that the Israeli players who were previously listed under their own country and flag, are now listed under a FIDE flag. It seems that there have been some withdrawals of the Israeli players.

This is unfortunate. We don’t know the facts at this point, but what is clear is that Israel was accorded the expected treatment at the start of the tournament, and then once underway, after the Israeli delegation was on site, and after other countries were also present, the references to Israel were removed. It will be important to hear what happened. It’s almost impossible to imagine an acceptable account being given.

Given that “We are one people” (Gens una sumus), shouldn’t EVERYONE be playing inder the FIDE name. not just Israel’s team? It would be hilarious if the Israeli team wins. Then they could claim to be “Gens una summus” (the one top people).

[David_Ames]

@David Ames

@Grayson

It is being reported in various places that references to “Israel” and the Israeli flag have been removed at the the World Youth. If one goes to the official website, they will see that the Israeli players who were previously listed under their own country and flag, are now listed under a FIDE flag. It seems that there have been some withdrawals of the Israeli players.

This is unfortunate. We don’t know the facts at this point, but what is clear is that Israel was accorded the expected treatment at the start of the tournament, and then once underway, after the Israeli delegation was on site, and after other countries were also present, the references to Israel were removed. It will be important to hear what happened. It’s almost impossible to imagine an acceptable account being given.

Given that “We are one people” (Gens una sumus), shouldn’t EVERYONE be playing inder the FIDE name. not just Israel’s team? It would be hilarious if the Israeli team wins. Then they could claim to be “Gens una summus” (the one top people). Kindly overlook that “gens” is feminine and “summus” is masculine.

[Meadmaker]

So, it seems to have hit the real news. Well, the Washington Times isn’t always real news, but they seem to be covering something others aren’t.

washingtontimes.com/news/201 … bi-anonym/

This seems pretty darned outrageous.

As part of the Olympic Movement, I believe FIDE is bound by Olympic rules and conventions, and deciding that one country does not exist seems pushing the limits. Oh, I know there’s that “Chinese Taipei” flap that always comes up, but generally if your country gets to the opening ceremonies, it continues to exist for the duration of the games, and my guess is that the IOC has rules about this sort of thing, and that they apply to any sporting federation that is part of the Olympic Movement, not just to the Olympic Games themselves.

It is unfortunate that children are dragged into this absurdity, otherwise I think the right thing would be to withdraw.

Since withdrawing does seem a bit over the top, since it would hurt the kids most of all, I would love to see the FIDE allow any participant to switch flags to the FIDE banner, and see how many join up.

Apparently, this is not the first time an anti-Israeli action occurred at a World Youth Chess Championship. I read today that a few years back, the Turkish organizers refused to play “Ha Tikva”, the Israeli national anthem, after an Israeli girl had the gall to win a gold medal.

It’s all very unfortunate.

ETA: Did some more googling on this subject. It appears that whatever deal was worked out had the blessing of the Deputy Prime Minister for Foreign Affairs of Israel. I suppose if it’s good enough for the Israeli government, it’s good enough for me. It still stinks, though.

[Allen]

@David Ames

Given that “We are one people” (Gens una sumus), shouldn’t EVERYONE be playing inder the FIDE name. not just Israel’s team? It would be hilarious if the Israeli team wins. Then they could claim to be “Gens una summus” (the one top people). Kindly overlook that “gens” is feminine and “summus” is masculine.

I don’t believe it is a team event.

[samsloan]

The problem with these arguments is that in 1999 when the FIDE World Championship was held in Las Vegas, several players could not play because they were on the banned countries list. One was Grandmaster Hakki from Syria who was eligible to play but could not play because he was from Syria. On the other hand, the player from Cuba defected to the US and is still here. There is almost no country in the world that will let in players from every other country.

[Meadmaker]

@samsloan

The problem with these arguments is that in 1999 when the FIDE World Championship was held in Las Vegas, several players could not play because they were on the banned countries list. One was Grandmaster Hakki from Syria who was eligible to play but could not play because he was from Syria. On the other hand, the player from Cuba defected to the US and is still here. There is almost no country in the world that will let in players from every other country.

Something smells fishy about this, Sam. The US hosted Olympic Games in 1996 and in 2002. We hosted the World Cup recently as well.

Maybe there’s something different about the FIDE World Championships and they don’t have the clout to cut through the paperwork the way the IOC does.

[samsloan]

@Meadmaker

@samsloan

The problem with these arguments is that in 1999 when the FIDE World Championship was held in Las Vegas, several players could not play because they were on the banned countries list. One was Grandmaster Hakki from Syria who was eligible to play but could not play because he was from Syria. On the other hand, the player from Cuba defected to the US and is still here. There is almost no country in the world that will let in players from every other country.

Something smells fishy about this, Sam. The US hosted Olympic Games in 1996 and in 2002. We hosted the World Cup recently as well.

Maybe there’s something different about the FIDE World Championships and they don’t have the clout to cut through the paperwork the way the IOC does.

When FIDE held its World Championship in 1999 in Las Vegas several countries were prohibited from sending players including Iran and Libya. However, Iran and Libya did not have any players who were qualified to play in the World Championship anyway. Hakki from Syria was qualified to play but was not let in. There may have been one other but I am not sure.

I later found out that Kirsan Ilyumzhinov wanted to bring several of his cronies with him to the FIDE World Championships. However, the US State Department would not let them in the country. They had already been banned. It seems that this was the real reason why Kirsan wanted to hold the World Championship in Las Vegas. The State Department would let Kirsan in, but not his cronies. He tried to bring them in through Canada too, without success.

[Meadmaker]

I don’t know the intricacies of State Department policies, but if a country won’t allow the competitors to enter, that country shouldn’t be used for international competitions.

If that includes the United States, then FIDE should not use the US as a host nation. That’s really an easy call.

Maybe I’m naïve, but I’ll bet there are plenty of nations that somehow can manage to allow everyone in, regardless of the political situation between the host nation and the nation sending a delegation.

[David_Ames]

@Meadmaker

I don’t know the intricacies of State Department policies, but if a country won’t allow the competitors to enter, that country shouldn’t be used for international competitions.

If that includes the United States, then FIDE should not use the US as a host nation. That’s really an easy call.

Maybe I’m naïve, but I’ll bet there are plenty of nations that somehow can manage to allow everyone in, regardless of the political situation between the host nation and the nation sending a delegation.

I have not read an exact reason that the U.S. refused entry to the Syrian player or to others. Canada is also known to refuse entry to individuals who present themselves at the bprder. Amy country has the right to refuse anybody, for any reason.

[Meadmaker]

@David Ames

@Meadmaker

I don’t know the intricacies of State Department policies, but if a country won’t allow the competitors to enter, that country shouldn’t be used for international competitions.

If that includes the United States, then FIDE should not use the US as a host nation. That’s really an easy call.

Maybe I’m naïve, but I’ll bet there are plenty of nations that somehow can manage to allow everyone in, regardless of the political situation between the host nation and the nation sending a delegation.

I have not read an exact reason that the U.S. refused entry to the Syrian player or to others. Canada is also known to refuse entry to individuals who present themselves at the bprder. Amy country has the right to refuse anybody, for any reason.

No doubt, but they don’t have a right to hold international competitions.

If it is known that a nation will not allow competitors to enter, that nation shouldn’t be chosen as host.

In the case of the World Youth Chess Championship, it appears that the Israeli delegation was allowed in, and allowed to compete. Initially, it was allowed to compete as a delegation representing their home country, but then, during the event, that was changed. We don’t know exactly what happened. We know that some things went on behind the scenes.

Either way, though, I would say that the United Arab Emirates shouldn’t be allowed to host international gatherings of this sort in the future. No international sports body ought to choose UAE as a site.

As for the US, I also don’t know the policies or exactly what happened in 1999, but any international body seeking a site for an event should review US policies and make sure that they are satisfied that all competitors will be allowed to compete, and compete normally. If the US can’t reasonably make such assurances, it shouldn’t be the host nation.

[davidacole]

I kind of agree with the previous posters that UAE should not be allowed to host
future Internationals if they are going to deliver this mean kind of treatment. I
would also like to add that Israel could have boycotted the event, sort of like
the Russians boycotting the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles, and the US
boycotting the 1988 Olympics in Moscow. It appears that it was classic “Bait and
Switch”, and the UAE proved to be the worst of hosts for this event, and were not
at all adequately prepared for the event itself, given the problems with the food, and
general logistics.

David A. Cole, USCF Life Member, Franklin, NJ

[kevin_bachler]

@Meadmaker

If it is known that a nation will not allow competitors to enter, that nation shouldn’t be chosen as host.

That’s an extreme position, don’t you think? There’s a reasonable balance due to safety.

[Meadmaker]

@kbachler

@Meadmaker

If it is known that a nation will not allow competitors to enter, that nation shouldn’t be chosen as host.

That’s an extreme position, don’t you think? There’s a reasonable balance due to safety.

I don’t think it’s extreme at all.

Certainly, world affairs are too complex to be summed up with one sentence policy statements, but that particular one sentence statement is pretty darned close.

Somewhere in the world there are places where a competition can be held in which Syrians and Israelis are all allowed to compete. Those places should be given preference as host nations over any nation that will not allow Syrians, or Israelis, or any number of other warring or hostile nations, to compete.

[kevin_bachler]

@Meadmaker

@kbachler

@Meadmaker

If it is known that a nation will not allow competitors to enter, that nation shouldn’t be chosen as host.

That’s an extreme position, don’t you think? There’s a reasonable balance due to safety.

I don’t think it’s extreme at all.

Certainly, world affairs are too complex to be summed up with one sentence policy statements, but that particular one sentence statement is pretty darned close.

Somewhere in the world there are places where a competition can be held in which Syrians and Israelis are all allowed to compete. Those places should be given preference as host nations over any nation that will not allow Syrians, or Israelis, or any number of other warring or hostile nations, to compete.

I understand your perspective. And disagree. I agree that honor of sport and open competition are important moral goals to be achieved. I would not necessarily say that that is the over-riding goal.