Lending clocks: Input Needed!

Running Chess Tournaments
1

Greetings from Asheboro!

I am trying to decide on a chess clock to buy. Now that I am a TD,
I feel the need to purchase a clock with delay as a “lender.”

I am highly considering the chronos standard, but I am not sure about
touch switch vs. standard. Personally, I hate the touch switch. To
me, it prevents you from doing something legal (punching the clock
with a piece). I also wonder if it is possible to somehow activate the
switch without actually touching it. :question:

I have also considered just going with analog. The cheaper digitals I have seen look like they are too easily broken. Durability must be on the top of my list of considerations. The chronos is durable, but not as easy to set. So the TD gets bogged down setting clocks.

I just hate the idea of letting players borrow a “non standard clock.” But
I also hate spending so much money on a lender. I doubt that anyone
who must borrow a clock is choosy about using delay. If they are, they
should buy their own. :open_mouth:

I have pondered the idea of asking for a donation to the “clock fund”
for players who must borrow clocks. I would make such donation a
voluntary matter, and a nominal amount (let’s say $1.00 for entire
tournament of use). I have noticed it is the same people who seem to
show up without a clock every time. Perhaps this would encourage them
to make an investment in their own. I would be less inclined to ask for such a donation from children. Perhaps I could suggest they add chess
clock to their gift list at the holidays. :wink:

I would appreciate input, as I need to make a final decision on this soon.
At The Asheboro Open III, we just barely had enough clocks–and I had
to lend my personal clock. I don’t wish to repeat that!

Sincere Thanks,

William “Tom” Hales, TD

Asheboro Chess Club

2

The Chronos push switch or touch switch is fine. Myself, like the touch switch better than the push switch. The push switch will make a minor noise when it is pushed, not annoying but it is still a noise yourself and the people around your board can hear. The major reason I like the touch switch better, as the players are not going to bang the pieces on the clock. If you ever been to a tournament with two time controls, it is very annoying when someone is in time trouble, as the clock sure gets a beating. If you want to beat the clock with the touch screen, what is going to break first the clock or your hand?

The question that a touch switch is illegal, as the player cannot press the clock with the piece. With the spirit of rule 5H and 16C, the player should press the clock with the hand not the piece. Just to release the piece, then press the clock should take a few seconds longer. The opponent is in the same boat as yourself, so it is a wash with a few seconds more it takes.

Have tried to activate the touch switch a number of times, with pens, a piece, anything you would have at the tournament and it did not activate the switch. Have even had my fingers close to the switch, very close and it still did not activate the switch. Did other test you would not be able to do with rule 16C, it still did not activate the clock. You have to press the clock with the hand to activate the clock.

It is not a bad idea to have an analog clock, myself has the Garde. There are going to be players that want an analog clock then the digital clock, even that the analog clock is non-standard. If the players want the analog clock, let them use it, why force the players to use a delay clock when they do not want it.

If you are going to let players borrow clocks, it would be best to have only one type of digital clock. If you have the Chronos, you can pre-set the clock to the time control of the tournament days before the event. Just set it at number one, all you have to do is turn the clock on, at the tournament the time controls have been pre-programmed by you. The other digital clocks, not sure as I do not have them.

Having a clock fund is fine, but a dollar is a little low. Myself would not use a clock fund, as the clocks I bring to the tournament are my own clocks. It would be like asking you to pay for my own clock. Think of all the clocks as your personal clock, unless the chess club has a set of clocks. The players will get their own clocks in time, the only time you as the director will get into borrowing your personal clock would be the new players. New players are not going to have all the equipment, chess sets and boards, just like the clock. It is just a natural learning curve, it is going to happen.

If you are going to let the players borrow the clocks, make sure you get what you like as a clock. As you can use the clock for your own games just as well as it can be borrowed. Myself has three Chronos clocks, with a number of analog clocks. Do not get into the mind set of a cheap clock just for the tournaments. If your going to get a clock, get what you like.

3

I’ll be interested in reading any responses just because I am planning on upgrading to a digital and was overwhelmed by the choices out there.

4

My chess club owns 6 Excaliburs and 7 Precisions. Both work fine for our purposes. The Precisions seem more pounding-resistant and thus a little better for a scholastic or a speed tournament. The delay options on the Precision are only either 5 second Bronstein or none, while the Excalibur is much more flexible. The Precision only has a single sudden-death setting, while the Excalibur can have multiple time controls. Since our club nights are G/90 and the scholastic tournaments all have a single time control with a 5 second delay, the Precision is fine. Some of the Precisions have lost some of the buttons in front used to do the settings, but a pen in the opening still sets it fairly easily.

Remember that you can have a rated game that did not have a clock on it. The local multi-hundred player scholastic tournaments often have half of the games played without a clock (generally on the weaker boards where the kids often play quickly anyway). We have clocks available to put on the long-running games and, when later placing a clock on a game, simply split the elapsed time (per the rulebook). It WOULD be more than a little strange to have an adult tournament with even a quarter of the games starting without a clock, but it is not unknown for a very small percentage of the games to start without one. Even the HB had some games start without one. At the HB there were also a few cases of players arriving almost an hour late, their opponent who had been sitting waiting for an hour not having a clock, and the arriving players placing their clock by correctly taking almost half an hour off from BOTH sides.

5

I think as a TD you need to have a delay clock available for those insufficient losing chances claims. And they are the wave of the future - and they are more accurate. They sort of are just better - as much as I hate to admit it.

I have experience with only 3 of the models available: the Excalibur; the Chronos; and the Saitek.

My advice would be stay away from the Saitek - setting it is not intuitive, and even the owners of them that I know have trouble.

The Excalibur and the Chronos are I think the two extremes. The Excalibur is a nice clock with a lot of settings. It does feel “cheaper” … but remember that the electronics are all contained on circuit boards in these things and that part is virtually indestructable. The part that has the occasional problem are the mechanical parts and once you work up the nerve you can resuscitate those. We have one mom who is a wiz at that! They can be had fairly affordably …

The Chronos is over twice the price of the Excalibur and is solid as the dickens. I personally don’t like the touch switch as a player. I think in a time scramble it favors the owner of the clock because all the rest of us are in a habit of hitting the button with a piece. Also the push buttons “give” and you KNOW that you have at least stopped your clock from running. With a touch switch you never know unless you are watching the clock WITH EVERY MOVE, and I think that is NOT what the rules intended.

The idea of a clock fund is an interesting idea - I think Doug is correct here. $1 is too low to really motivate behavior, and it will take an awful lot of “loans” to buy the clock. And I’m always hearing about what thieves these chessplayers are :slight_smile: I’d consider charging a dollar and then NOT loaning a clock - require them to play without a clock. That will drive behavior better, and also allow you to buy a clock faster :slight_smile:

I think Doug is correct about one other thing - if it’s your money, buy a clock you like. But I’d also echo the other idea that you can let them play without a clock. If they know you’ll loan one they’ll never get one. What’s worse is I’ll stop bringing mine so it doesn’t get messed up by those opponents …

Having said all that, it really sounds like you are asking the question as an organizer and not a TD. And that’s different - there are several scholastic clubs in our area that have purchased clocks to “jumpstart” the playing of tournaments and to loan equipment to brand new players until the parents decide that Johnny likes it enough to BUY equipment for him. And that’s very kind, and we need organizers like that!

The decision I usually see in this case is to buy the cheapest analog clock you can. It will get the job done - especially if you need to get it done 6 times a round - at a price that allows you to maintain your kind heart. Let the PARENTS then upgrade to the Excalibur or Chronos …

Good luck!

6

One gets bleeped out for spelling DICKENS ??

Like in Charles?

Goodness - I didn’t realize I was such a potty mouth!

7

Go along with one with the 5-second delay. Half the time you “lend” your clock, you will really be using it in connection with claims of insufficient losing chances.

Regardless of your personal preferences, the standard would be preferable as a loaner. Some players may have difficulty adjusting to the touch switch, but nobody will have any difficulty adjusting to the standard. (If they PREFER the touch switch, they should buy one themselves.)

I don’t know about that, but they are often not full-featured. As Jeff Wiewel has reported, they may not work with multiple controls, and/or the delay may be fixed at 5 seconds, without the 3-second option for quick chess.

It’s easy once you learn it. An Excalibur owner may have more trouble figuring out the Chronos than vice versa, but an hour or two spent with the Chronos manual (on a one-time basis) will get you “speaking” Chronos naturally and quickly.

The recent versions of the Excalibur are a good, affordable alternative to the Chronos. They’re full-featured, and the problems of the early versions are gone. Don’t get a used Excalibur, though – it would probably be one of the early, trouble-prone versions.

Best way to encourage players to bring clocks is NOT to lend them one. Let them play (or start) their games without a clock. That might just cure them in a hurry!

A loaner should be used mainly for (a) insufficient losing chances claims and (b) emergencies. An example of the latter would be if a player’s clock batteries go dead just before (or during) the game.

Bill Smythe

8

William H., if you want to encourage players to buy their own clocks then there is another reason to not simply loan out the clocks at the start of the game. To expand on Bill S.'s comment I will emphasize a previous statement related to placing a clock on the game after the start of the game. Barring a late-arrival-forfeit situation, the elapsed time from the start of the round is split regardless of when either player arrived or when play in the game actually started. If you limit the times you place a clock on a game to the situations Bill S. mentioned, or even if you are somewhat kinder and regularly wait until some time after the start of the game to finally put a clock on, then players who do not bring clocks will lose out in two different situations.

If the clock-less player was the first at the board then the late player will start with equal time instead of being behind by the time the player was late. When the clock-less player complains about that after having waited patiently for 40+ minutes you can simply explain the rules to that player and give a reminder that one reason for a player to have a clock is so that a late player is penalized by the time the player is late. At the HB there were a number clock-less players who immediately went the to bookstore to purchase clocks at the start of the round if their opponent was not yet there.

If one clock-less player moves more quickly than the clock-less opponent in a game that has not yet had a clock placed on it, then that potential clock-time edge that the faster player could have gained will not be gained.

9

PhpBB has a default list of words it checks for, I guess that’s one of them.

I wonder if it checks for words like patzer?

10

Tom:

I can give you a analog clock to have for your club as a loaner. If you will be in Raleigh on the 3rd I will get it to you then otherwise we can make other arrangements.

A few of my opinions on the digital clocks:
#1 I love the touch switch chronus because no one will loosen the weights in my pieces. As a loaner the standard switch model is better as it will not freak people out. The chronus is easy to set once you learn a few basics.
#2 You can buy almost three excaliburs for the price of the chronus, and it is very easy and quick to set. It would be my choice if I had to purchase one as a loaner. If you don’t use it for a lot of speed chess its durability is fine.
#3 The Saitek II is very nice clock, but a little different to set as is mentioned in the thread. I think it has a drawback in that it only uses halt-on-end (unless I a missing how to turn that off)
#4 The DGT XL is great. Pretty easy to learn to set. The rocker switch is nice cause you can see who’s move it is from a distance. Seems very durable. The cheapest I have seen it for is $65. …and of course you can use it in FIDE tournaments! :slight_smile:
#5 The “chess timer” is very cheap. Only one SD time control. Easy to set. The clock feels like it will break before your first game is over. Very noisy switches. Can’t recommend it.
#6 Duel Timer Champion appears to be a very nice clock. It will take some time for me to learn to set this one. I have the one with the soft-touch switches. The switches do not feel durable, but I have no proof one way or the other.

11

Directors should not have a major problem with clocks, as it should be a given the director would have a few extra clocks. It could be a problem, if the tournament is small with a large amount of new players. Would be nice if new players have a clock, set and board, it should not be a given they will. Do not be upset, if the new players do not have a clock at the very small events. If the event has a number of players, the change the director would need to let someone borrow a clock is low. The director should be more willing to let the players borrow the clocks during the last round from the director. It can be very annoying, letting someone borrow your clock, than your games are finnished, and your ready to go home, but the clock is still being used.

12

Douglas,

What do you mean that it should be a given that the director would have a few extra clocks? Why? I own 1 clock that is my personal clock; if I am directing a tournament I have no obligation to provide clocks to players; and there should be no expectation that I will.

13

I agree that the tournament director has no obligation to provide clocks, but at tournaments where I’m the chief director I generally bring a Chronos and a couple of cheap BHB clocks. The Chronos is for insufficient losing chances claims, not for lending to players.

Bob Messenger

14

Thanks for you generous offer. I plan to attend the Wolfpack Open on
Sept 3.

Sincerely,

William “Tom” Hales

15

Directors do not have an obligation to bring extra clocks, it is just a general perception the director being practicable to the change one would be needed during the event. If during the round, finding a board with a defective clock (rule 16), it would be annoying to all the players to ask for a replacement during the round. Would you want the director to stop your game, just to borrow your clock, because the board next to you has a defective clock?

16

If you’re going to get a digital clock (and I like to bring one for those 14H claims) GET A CHRONOS! Period.

If you’re going to get an analog I would suggest, believe it or not, BHB’s. Why? Because my experience at the Marshall Chess Club tells me that people often leave other battery-operated (think Quartzes) clocks running, thus killing the battery so that the clock stops during games. The BHBs need only be wound. I used to think BHBs were the worst clocks, but I now respect them. The Masters and Senior masters prefer the BHBs to other models, some prefer them even to digitals!

I would say, further, that if you are going to get ONE clock, get the Chronos for the claims. If you’re going to get a bunch to lend, go with BHBs (or similar to this).

Good luck!

Andre E. Harding, Senior TD