Moving the piece before the opponent presses the clock

Running Chess Tournaments
1

There is one player that moves the piece on the board before the opponent presses the clock. There have been a number of players that have made statements about this after the game. Have talked with one player that told me he will make a complaint the next time it happens again.

Myself find this behavior annoying, as making the move during the same time, gets in the way to make the move and press the clock. The behavior to move the piece at the same time gives the player a few seconds on my clock, or anyone else that he plays.

Checking the rules, other than the annoying behavior rule – there is no clear rule against it. I wish I am wrong and someone has a very clear rule on this topic. Since the behavior takes away time to press my clock and save the player time on their clock. The behavior should have some type of time penalty.

2

It’s illegal. A player can’t make a move unless it’s his move. 6B states that he is not “on the move” until the opponent’s move is completed. 9 (A-D) makes it clear the the move is not completed until the clock has been stopped (though it is determined when the piece is released). The only question is whether this should be treated under 11H (Illegal move) or 11J (Deliberate illegal move).

3

I have seen the following scenario many times, and I am sure that everyone else here has as well. A player makes a move and apparently forgets to hit his clock. After a few minutes, his opponent has decided on his move, and then makes it, taking full advantage of thinking on the other player’s time. Are you saying this is illegal? Do we need to remind our opponents to hit the clock before we are able to move?

Alex Relyea

4

Do understand your point John and Alax, but it does raise one major question. Your idea of rule 6B following into rule 11J – when the opponent is making the move when you have the piece in hand. As you pointed out rule 9, under rule 9G, there is a window from the release of the piece and the press of the clock. The move is completed with the press of the clock, if my opponent fails to press the clock, would not any move on my part be an illegal move?

Supports the idea of the illegal move, if the opponent is making a move when you have your piece in your hand. Do not support the idea of the illegal move, if you move the piece but fail to press the clock. The problem with it, how much time has to pass from the piece being moved and failing to press the clock.

If I have the piece in hand, and my opponent touch a piece at the same time – would not the piece my opponent touch be a touch piece? When I have the piece in hand, and the clock is still on my time: should I point out to the director my opponents illegal move or point out the touch piece. Should the director grant me the two-extra minutes, force my opponent to move the piece he touched. On my part since I have the piece in hand, make a legal move with that piece.

5

Technically, yes, though since the player is not gaining any advantage from this (unlike Doug’s scenario of time pressure) it would be silly to anything other than warn the opponent to press his clock in the future.

6

Thinking it over, if the player is on the move with the piece in the hand. If the opponent touch a piece during that time, the player would be forced to move the piece after the player makes the move. With the player having the piece in the hand, would have to make a legal move with that piece. Since the player did touch a piece on the board during the opponents determination and completion of the move: it would be a touch piece.

If the player that touch a piece during the opponents determination and completion of the move, would be a touched piece – therefore, the piece has to make a legal move. Example, Black touched the Black King during Whites determination and completion of the move. It does not matter if White place the Black King in check, as Black would be forced to make a legal move, if the Black King can make a legal move.

If the touched piece cannot make a legal move, than the opponent should get an extra two minutes on the clock. Example, Black touched the Black Bishop when White was making the determination and completion of Whites move. But the completion of Whites move left the Black King in check, the Black Bishop cannot interpose the check. This would make the King needing to be moved, or a piece is used to interpose the check. In this case, White should get an extra two minutes, as Black did touch a piece that cannot make a legal move.

Having your opponent touch a piece during the determination and completion of the move, would be annoying behavior. As the annoying behavior could interfere in the completion of the determination and completion of the move. The director should inform the player of the annoying behavior before any penalize are placed.

If the touched moved rule is used during the period of the opponents determination and completion of the move. The penalized infraction could be on the board than the clock. Example, Black touched the Black King that can make a legal move, during Whites determination and completion of move. White during the determination and completion of move has the piece in the hand. White is free to make any legal move with the piece in the hand, black has a touched piece and on the next move is forced to make a legal move with the Black King. White has the right to check the Black King, or move the piece to any legal square on the board. Even the right to capture any legal piece on the board, as Black is committed to move the Black King.

7

If it is clear that players will forget to press the clock. But if I make a move on my opponents clock because my opponent fails to press the clock. My move is a touch move not a illegal move. If white failed to press the clock, it is still within the determination and completion of the move of rule 9G. If I touch a piece when my opponents clock is on, it is a touch move and I am forced to move the piece.

8

As a practical matter, yes, that’s the way the TD should rule. The player who failed to press the clock is only harming himself, so he’s not entitled to any redress.

I have some problems with this argument, since it blurs the distinction between “determined” and “completed.” If you touch a piece before your opponent moves, you obviously don’t have to move it on your next move. You are arguing that if you touch a piece after the opponent has moved (move determined) but before he stops his clock (move completed), the touch-move rule does apply. I don’t think this is a reasonable interpretation of the rules, though I’d be interested in hearing Tim Just’s view.

I think the right way to look at it is to treat the case you describe above (player, with plenty of time, fails to press the clock; opponent makes another move after some thought) under 11H (Illegal move must be corrected, no other penalty), which means you do nothing except possibly warn the player to press his clock in future. The one that started this thread (player in time pressure, opponent makes a move before player has time to stop the clock) should go under 11J (Deliberate illegal move must be corrected and director may impose penalties).

9

Let me make it more clear. If during the start of the game I move to 1.e4, without pressing my clock. If my opponent moves to 1. … e5, the move is clear to be a legal move. With my own failing have let my opponent move on my time. It is clear I did not make the completion of the determination and completion of the move. If I failed to press the clock, my opponent can point this out to me or make a legal move. If my opponent touched the pawn, my opponent is bound to move the pawn to e6 or e5, but the pawn was touched during my time.

If my opponent after the move did not want to open with 1. … e5, but wanted to open with 1. … d5. If my opponent makes the claim I did not make the completion of the determination and completion of the move, my opponent should not have the right to change the move from 1. … e5 to 1. … d5. There is no official penalty for failing to press my clock. If I failed not to press my clock for ten minutes, the director does not have any official rules to penalize me for not pressing my clock. Since Black cannot prove any official penalties, Black is bound to the touch move.

If my opponent makes a move on my time, because I failed to press the clock, the move is a legal move. During any time controls, players have made their move at the same time as their opponents. If my opponent noticed I touched my pawn, so on my first move I have to move the piece to 1. e3 or 1. e4. If my opponent also touched a pawn, my opponent is bound to move to 1. … e6 or 1. … e5. My opponent does not have the right to touch and move any other piece on the board.

It does not matter when my opponent will do this. It can be on the first move or any move of the game. It is a annoying behavior under rule 20G, it can be a deliberate illegal moves under rule 11J under some cases. The point is this, if my opponent does touch a piece during the time I have the piece in hand. My opponent has not given me the chance to make the completion and determination and completion of the move. As my opponent is moving his own piece at the same time as myself.

If the opponent does this on the board, than the opponent should suffer the punishment on the board as well. Example of a simple position: WHITE King on g1, Rook on e2, BLACK Rook on b2, Queen on b3, King on g7. If white is on move, and Black grabs the King on g7 as he feels White is going to play Re7+. White has touched and picked up the Rook on e2, but has not released the Rook. White has the piece (Rook) in hand. Black has grabbed the King on g7, in the faith that white is going to move to Re7+. The point is this, Black has failed to let White make the completion of the determination and completion of the move. In my judgment, black has to move the King as the King is touched. White can capture the Rook on b2, black has to move the King and white on the next move can capture the Queen on b3.

For a number of people you would feel this is cheating, but it is not it is just the position on the board. If it was the start of the game with 1. e4 e5 with my opponent making a move on my time. If the opponent is making a move at the same time as myself, and the move is as simple as 1.e4 e5. It should not matter when the touch move was done, as the touch move does not care about the position of the board – only following the rule of the game.