Have seen a few questions about this rule, but this is maybe a new wrinkle - so would love some insight.
In sudden death Player A has about 10 seconds left, Player B 10 minutes. Both have stopped keeping score. Player B claims 3 time repetition but Player A does not agree, and says that it can’t be proved without notation.
Arbiter comes over and observes the next few moves, and the claim is made again. Arbiter agrees he observed the same position three times. Again, Player A rejects the claim and says arbiter must be notating the game, and his observation is not enough. (This is corroborated by the player’s teammate - A GM! Who btw also rudely tells the arbiter that he doesn’t know the rules of chess.) They also tell the arbiter that they will appeal the decision if he rules as such.
14c8 states that the draw may be awarded to the player who has less than 5 minutes if observed by the td or a witness. Can the same be awarded to the player with more than 5 minutes? Would he have to wait until his time is below 5 minutes to fall under the rule? Seems kind of silly if so.
5 minutes is the magic threshold (“time pressure”) for a player to stop notating, so it makes sense that only a player with less than 5 minutes can make the 14C8 claim.
Player B could have kept notating and made the correct claim under 14C generally (and in fact 15B notes that not notating may make it impossible to invoke 14C).
However, the director could have just waited for the position to repeat 2 more times and invoked 14K.1 without any rule corner case.
Note: you have used the word “arbiter”. I am assuming you mean “director” and that the rules were USCF, matching your 14C8 numbering, rather than “arbiter” and FIDE rules.
Sorry, you are correct - I meant TD rather than arbiter.
I had the same thought about 14K1 but I am not sure that came up in the game when the td was observing. The player could definitely have kept notating, but the rules say that both players can stop once either is under 5, so I was wondering what the td’s course of action should be.
I don’t think they can be made to notate the game, but if they observe a 3 time repetition I would think that should be sufficient? Also trying to figure out if, the admittedly kind of absurd, situation is true that If player B just sat, and waited until their time was under 5, and then made the claim, that would trigger the rule?
If you run out of time you run out of time. It’s a loss unless the TD tells you to put time back on clock.
Triple occurrence of position is what to go by not “repetition of moves” but people have a hard time w/ basic algebra. I do myself. Whatever it says in the rule book write your notation to the end of time. If you prove Triple Occurrence before time is up the game is a draw.
Also if the person w/ more time is the receiver of the triple occurrence he has to call it otherwise the player who created the triple occurrence can claim a win and call over the TD.
In the situation as described, you’re not dealing with reasonable people, so as the TD I would either wait to see the 5 time repetition and invoke 14K1 or I would quote the rule of 14C8 to Player A and note to Player B that as soon as they have 5 minutes they can invoke it.
In either case I would also tell Player A to make sure to spell my name correctly on the appeal and to read 21I7 first.