Quick question:
What do people typically see as the appropriate response if a spectator calls a flag falling when both players are in tight time trouble? Specifically, if the player whose flag has fallen claims that his opponents flag was going to fall in a matter of seconds and it was likely that he would not have noticed the first flag falling before his own flag fell?
see page 30 of the Rule book.
13C1. Only players may call flag. Only the players in a game may call attention to the flag (5G); it is considered to have fallen only when either player points this out. A director must never initiate a time-forfeit claim.
Spectators, including players of other games, who point out the fall of a flag in any manner, may be disciplined by the tournament director to the point of expulsion from the playing room, loss of their own games, or expulsion from the tournament.
The director should understand the relationship of the player at the board and the spectator. If the spectator is a friend of the player, or even worse a relative of the player at the board. If one players flag has fallen, and the other players flag is going to fall soon. This could be the reason the spectator made the statement. If both flags have fallen, the game would be a draw.
Since the player did hear the statement of the flag fall, the player did accept solicited advice. As the players on the board did accept solicited advice, as the clock was stopped. The rules do not give clear advice on how to deal with the players. Myself would check the clock when it was stopped. If the player that should win the game has less than two minutes left on the clock. Would declare the game a forfeit draw, as the standard penalty is add or remove two minutes from the clock.
With the spectator, that is up to the director. If it was not done with malice, and it should not have change much the final out-come of the game. It could be a harsh warning, or a few minutes removed from the spectators own game. If it is a spectator thats’’ not part of the tournament, the spectator needs to be removed from the tournament hall. If it was done to change the out-come of the game, the spectator needs a firm punishment.
Quite true, but not very helpful. The real question is what to do with the player who received the unsolicited aid. There is an extended discussion of this under 20E, but it really boils down to one line in 20E2: “There is sometimes to good solution to this problem.”
yes, after i posted this initially, i realized it doesn’t really address what to do about the players. Since only the players can call a flag, its not really fair to claim the opponent won on time. (Eventhough the spectator is an eyewitness).The rule book is not clear on what to do about the players. Perhaps a draw is an equitable solution, but i understand not a perfect solution.
If there are multiple time controls, then you just go into the next time control. In sudden death, it is more of a problem.
Alex Relyea
It is not a perfect solution, as the spectator could be anyone. It would be nice if the rule book was more clear than a warning to a forfeit. The director has to understand the relationship between the spectator and the player that received the advice. The spectator could be a non chess player, a novice of chess of not knowing if white or black moves first. The spectator could be your relative, or your chess coach – knowing the rules of chess as good as anyone.
Not all unsolicited advice should be punished the same. As the player in time trouble ended with the flag fall. If your opponents flag falls, you can have any amount of time left on the clock. If your flag falls and you have major time trouble yourself, a forfeit draw could be a accepted solution. If on the other hand you have ten minutes, or thirty minutes, or more left on the clock – if having that much time you would noticed the flag fall some time during the game. If you have thirty minutes left on the clock, it would be unjust to get a forfeit draw than a win.
It is also a question on who the unsolicited advice was for. Having the spectator pointing out the flag fall could have been in support of the player that did have the flag fall in the first place. What if the spectator was the relative, or the coach of the player that had the flag fall. It would not be just to declare the game a forfeit draw, as that was what the spectator wanted in the first place. This is the reason why the director has to understand the relationship of the players and the spectator.
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What if the director doesn’t know the relationship.
Especially if there’s a large group watching a game where a spectator could be anyone. Is the director going to ask “how are you related to these players?”
This is the reason why the director needs to talk with the spectator. If a spectator made the statement, just the simple questions can prove there is a relationship or not. Just asking why the spectator made the statement, can prove there is a relationship or not. Ask the spectator what they know about the players. If the spectator has a relationship with one of the players, that does come out during the questioning.
There are spectators that can point out the spectator that made the statement.
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good advice. thanks!!
Thanks for the input.
I would find it hard to award a draw to the game, especially considering that the “winning” player might have caught the clock himself prior to his own flag falling.
It is also hard to determine what is appropriate for the spectators. Has anyone ever pulled spectators aside in a sudden death time pressure game and quietly reminded them that they can’t say anything?
I’ve done that, but you have to do it BEFORE there’s something worth pointing out, or else you’re as likely to call the player’s attention to the situation as a spectator.
If I remember the various reports of the match correctly, there was gasp from the crowd in Iceland when Fischer made his big blunder in game 2. Part of his demands afterwards were to silence the audience if not banish them altogether.