Rules ADM: Modify rule 14G, Both flags down

[BobMessenger]

I’m planning to submit the following ADM to resolve a contradiction between rules 13C6 and 14G which was pointed out by Ben Bentrup.

In section 14G, "Both flags down in sudden death”, after “If a player whose flag is still up claims a win on time but does not stop the clock in time to prevent the flag from falling, the game is drawn” insert “unless the flag fall was observed by a director or independent witness.”

RATIONALE:

The current version of rule 14G contradicts rule 13C6, Claimant’s clock: “If a player who claims a time forfeit states the claim with claimant’s flag still up (5G), but then fails to stop the clock in time to avoid also exceeding the time limit, the claim will be void, unless the flag fall was observed by a director or independent witness.”

[wilecoyote]

@BobMessenger

I’m planning to submit the following ADM to resolve a contradiction between rules 13C6 and 14G which was pointed out by Ben Bentrup.

In section 14G, "Both flags down in sudden death”, after “If a player whose flag is still up claims a win on time but does not stop the clock in time to prevent the flag from falling, the game is drawn” insert “unless the flag fall was observed by a director or independent witness.”

RATIONALE:

The current version of rule 14G contradicts rule 13C6, Claimant’s clock: “If a player who claims a time forfeit states the claim with claimant’s flag still up (5G), but then fails to stop the clock in time to avoid also exceeding the time limit, the claim will be void, unless the flag fall was observed by a director or independent witness.”

I thoroughly support anything that fixes inconsistencies in the rules. This motion clearly does so. Please feel free to list me as a co-sponsor.

[BobMessenger]

@wilecoyote

Please feel free to list me as a co-sponsor.

I’ll do that. Thanks.

I’m making a minor change to the ADM: instead of “In section 14G” it should say “In rule 14G”.

[Terry_Winchester]

Should it be made more clear in both rules (13C6 & 14G) that instead of “unless the flag fall was observed by a director or independent witness” it’s submitted as “unless the flag fall was observed, and the claim was heard, by a director or independent witness”?

The intention fulfills the requirement that the flag fall itself is not a determining factor, rather it is the claim that’s important.

[BobMessenger]

@Terry Winchester

Should it be made more clear in both rules (13C6 & 14G) that instead of “unless the flag fall was observed by a director or independent witness” it’s submitted as “unless the flag fall was observed, and the claim was heard, by a director or independent witness”?

The intention fulfills the requirement that the flag fall itself is not a determining factor, rather it is the claim that’s important.

Good point. I’ll change the ADM as follows. Is that O.K. with you, Ken?

In rule 13C6, “Claimant’s clock”, after “unless the flag fall was observed” insert “and the claim was heard”.

In rule 14G, “Both flags down in sudden death”, after “If a player whose flag is still up claims a win on time but does not stop the clock in time to prevent the flag from falling, the game is drawn” insert “unless the flag fall was observed and the claim was heard by a director or independent witness.”

RATIONALE:

The current version of rule 14G contradicts rule 13C6, Claimant’s clock: “If a player who claims a time forfeit states the claim with claimant’s flag still up (5G), but then fails to stop the clock in time to avoid also exceeding the time limit, the claim will be void, unless the flag fall was observed by a director or independent witness.” In both rules, adding the words “and the claim was heard” acknowledges the fact that for a time forfeit to be valid, not only must the opponent’s flag be down but the player must make a claim to that effect.

[wilecoyote]

@BobMessenger

@Terry Winchester

Should it be made more clear in both rules (13C6 & 14G) that instead of “unless the flag fall was observed by a director or independent witness” it’s submitted as “unless the flag fall was observed, and the claim was heard, by a director or independent witness”?

The intention fulfills the requirement that the flag fall itself is not a determining factor, rather it is the claim that’s important.

Good point. I’ll change the ADM as follows. Is that O.K. with you, Ken?

In rule 13C6, “Claimant’s clock”, after “unless the flag fall was observed” insert “and the claim was heard”.

In rule 14G, “Both flags down in sudden death”, after “If a player whose flag is still up claims a win on time but does not stop the clock in time to prevent the flag from falling, the game is drawn” insert “unless the flag fall was observed and the claim was heard by a director or independent witness.”

RATIONALE:

The current version of rule 14G contradicts rule 13C6, Claimant’s clock: “If a player who claims a time forfeit states the claim with claimant’s flag still up (5G), but then fails to stop the clock in time to avoid also exceeding the time limit, the claim will be void, unless the flag fall was observed by a director or independent witness.” In both rules, adding the words “and the claim was heard” acknowledges the fact that for a time forfeit to be valid, not only must the opponent’s flag be down but the player must make a claim to that effect.

I’ll live with it, but I don’t like it.