To Nolan Re: Submitting Tourneys On-Line

Dear Nolan:

There are a number of tournaments that merge players into a tournament. Like the “Michigan Open” with the 4 day, 3 day and 2 day plan; the tournament has the same amount of players but each plan has different time controls’ for the different cycle. If it is a two day plan, the players would be having games that ‘could be dual rated’ before they join the rest of the players. Nobody has ever broken the 'Michigan Open" into crosstables for the 4 day, 3 day or 2 day plan; as that would give different endings with 3 crosstables and 3 different winners. True, keeping the players that have the 2 day plan would be having some of their games in time controls that could be dual rated. The director could inform the federation of the players that had the 2 day plan and only rated that special plan as quick.

I used to be an early adopter of technology, but I’ve gotten wiser in my old age in seeing that early adoption leads to extra monetary and time costs.

My enthusiasm for the new online submission system was sorely dampended when I went through the trouble of trying to register an Affiliate ID for my club and instead got a message that I have to get our club president, a self-professed cyberphobe, to vouch to the USCF that I am authorized to use the affiliate’s ID, even though I have submitted four ratings reports on disk during my term as a TD (and about eight others before I got certified). Another of the clubs I work for didn’t even have the first contact person.

I understand that there needs to be some cybersecurity, but why can’t the USCF just take evidence of past TD’ing for an affiliate to authorize me? If a TD goes renegade and becomes abusive, revoke his authorization for that affiliate. Yes, I am being a primadonna here, but I think I’m a relatively rare breed of a computer literate person who has VOLUNTEERED his time to become a TD, to help my chess clubs save on ratings fees, and to generate activity for the USCF. I brought rating reports on disk to two clubs, made websites for both clubs and websites for the two big yearly tournaments in Reno, and submitted a couple online memberships through shopuschess. I should be the ideal candidate for participating in the new online system. Why can’t I just get the president to call the USCF? Just a little bit of bureaucracy killed my enthusiasm. I’d probably get frustrated by the payment coordination part of it anyway.

Apologies to Mike Nolan, but despite all his hard work to make things better, I’m probably going to continue to mail my disks in. However, if it comes to be that ftp’ed rating reports are significantly cheaper than mailed disks, I may have to reconsider my passive aggressive position.

Mr. Ernest C. Hong:

Have authorized you under the ‘Greater Grand Rapids Chess Club’, the affiliate number is A6020393. If you want you can send in USCF memberships and tournament reports online, as of this date December 12, 2004. You will have to use you’re personal online account as a director, you should be active to use this affililiate for all you’re online reporting to the federation.

Checked your name in the member service area, seeing you’re the only Ernest Hong on file it did not take me long to get you’re USCF ID number. From the time of reading you’re statement and the time to authorized you was less then 5 minutes. If you do not want this Mr. Hong, please let me know and will delate you in less then a few minutes. With the statements you have placed into this forum, understanding you’re a hard working director with a better then average USCF rating.

All that is asked from me Mr. Hong, is just a simple email telling me you will use the affiliate number for a tournament. Do not want to get a shock looking at a tournament being posted without a clue were it came from. My email is president_ggrcc@yahoo.com feel free to email me at any time.

I came back from lunch and found that Doug had indeed included me in his affiliate authorizations.

"You are logged in as 12552302 ERNEST C HONG

You are authorized for these Affiliate ID’s:
A6020393"

That’s another thing that frustrates me about this. It should be as easy as a five minute task or even an instantaneous computer-automated one, but bureaucracy makes things hard. Incidentally, this all happened around the time that online went live about a month ago and I still feel a little steamed about it.

Doug, thanks for the kind offer of the Greater Grand Rapids’ Affiliate ID, but I still believe in the propriety of submitting ratings reports under their actual affiliate ID’s. You can go ahead and delete me from the authorization list for GGRCC.

Mr. Hong:

That is fine; number of directors or even the players do not care what affiliate is used to have a tournament rated. The contact person you use the affiliate number can give you authorization, as the affiliate can give authorization up to 20 directors. With you on the list, think the affiliate is up to 6 directors. Its’ not a problem having you on or having you off. Will just keep you on till that contact person gives you authorization, as a director can have more then one authorization numbers. It can give you something to fall back on in the case the contact person fails to add you onto the list. Who knows could add Terry and Bill onto the list. If you demand to be taken down, will do so without any problem.

Thanks Nolan - Here were the time controls …
G/60, G/45, G/30, G/15, G/10, G/5 - in that order. I took the first three and put them in a dual rated section, the last three in a quick rated section.

Ummmm - I already submitted it. Probably because this is the way we intended for ti to work all along - but how should it have gone? Incidentally the organizer and I did have one or two discussions about the backwards way the time controls were done (from my perspective!) but The parents got out a lot earlier this way and they were delighted!

Let me know your thoughts - Thanks! - Bob

Mvsguru, the system would be the same style if myself was the director.

Thanks, Douglas! I guess my initial reaction was take less time to dispose of the so called “easier” opponents, and have the longer time controls for the games that ‘mean more’ for prizes. But it’s more of a free for all this way, and everyone had a lot of fun. It was my first time directing in about 15 years and it couldn’t have been more enjoyable (well … unless we made money!)

Thanks for the feedback! - Bob

I think based on the time controls you used that submitting rounds 1-3 for dual rating and rounds 4-6 for quick-only was probably the best choice. (Yeah, it’s contrary to what one might expect, but this WAS an insanity after all. I’ve always wanted to run one, I don’t know that we’ve had enough crazy players here in Nebraska to make it work, though.)

An alternative would have been to submit rounds 1-6 for quick rating and rounds 1-3 as a separate section for regular rating. I don’t know which of the two the Ratings Comittee would prefer, I doubt most players would see enough of a difference for it to matter. (Though I will say I’ve read more than my share of emails from irate parents about the two points their son didn’t get in some event for some reason, perceived or real.)

As to the signup issue, the primary reason we aren’t using the historical records for validation is that they’re inaccurate and incomplete. Also, you may have brought in an outside TD to run a couple of events for you, but that doesn’t mean you want him or her submitting events using your affiliate ID all the time. How can I tell the difference between a rent-a-TD and a local TD who directs for you every now and then?

There have also been a number of highly publicized in-state feuds where TD X no longer is considered friendly by Affiliate Y. I also know of some not-so-public problems as well where someone submitted events using an affiliate’s ID without the affiliate’s knowledge or consent.

We’re having similar data validation issues with affiliate signups, we need to have someone we know to be an officer of the affiliate make the request but in more than a few cases the officer records we have on an affiliate are YEARS out of date. (In one case, the person listed as President died a decade ago!)

Two more related signup issues:

About 25% of the TDs who have tried to sign up are not listed on the USCF records as being current certified TDs. In one recent case, according to the USCF’s records that person’s local TD card expired in 1997.

Similarly, at least a dozen affiliates have tried to sign up though their affiliate had lapsed, in one case in October of 2003.

These are all, for the most part, one-time issues, and I’d rather take a fairly conservative approach to them, even if it upsets a few people, than take an approach that turns out to be too permissive.

Are there better ways to do it? Perhaps, but at this point I’d rather spend the time working on the modules that aren’t done yet rather than reworking the ones that already do work, even if not optimally.

The fee for submitting events on disk is 20 cents per game with a $5.00 minimum fee. The fee for submitting events online is 18 cents per game (a 10% savings) with a $3.00 minimum fee.

Once we get deposit accounts working, I think the minimum fee for those will be $1.00.

As of a few minutes ago, we have had 244 affiliates and 350 TDs sign up for access to the TD Affiliate Support Area.

That represents around 35% of the affiliates that have submitted an event for rating in 2004 and about 40% of the number of TDs who have been listed as the chief TD for an event submitted in 2004.

Hmm. I doubt very much whether this is what the ratings committee had in mind. It would mean that some games played at G/15 would be regular-rated. That seems to be quite a stretch, far beyond any reasonable interpretation of the rating requirements.

I think what the RC had in mind was an event with multiple schedules, where some round(s) of some alternate schedule(s) were played at, say, G/45, while all games in the main schedule were something like G/120. In this case, the answer is obvious: All games are eligible for regular rating, but not all are eligible for quick rating, so the event is regular-rated (only).

If some games are G/15 while others are G/45, I suppose it could be argued that since all games are quick-rateable, the event should be quick-rated (only), but even that seems like QUITE a stretch.

In the above case, and certainly in the case of (for example) some games G/15 and others G/75, the only reasonable thing seems to be to divide the tournament into one quick-rated event and one regular-rated event (or, in the G/15 - G/45 case, one quick and one dual).

Bill Smythe

Wait a minute. Didn’t you once have trouble with a site because one of the players refused to wear clothes (or was it just shoes?)?

And you don’t have enough crazies to run an insanity tournament?? :laughing:

Bill Smythe

Darn it, Mike. If you aren’t so matter-of-factual level-headed so as to make me see the error of my ways. I’ll try again. :slight_smile:

I think a range from G/15 to G/75 is unusual, as is speeding up the time control in later rounds.

According to the RC, playing early rounds at a faster time control, even one that would not normally be rated under the regular rating system, doesn’t significantly alter the winning expectations in the formula, since those are usually the less competitive matchups. I doubt they’d like G/5 mixed in with G/75 in a regular-rated event, but I think they’ve already stated that G/15 in the early rounds would be acceptable.

It would be best to have some straight-forward examples as to when to split an event into multiple sections for rating purposes. I can ask the RC for that, but I don’t know what kind of response I’ll get.

I had a problem earlier trying to submit a tournament. It seemed like after I clicked submit, it would display “Page cannot be found”, then if I’d hit refresh, it would say something like Error: tdfbase.dbf file can not be found for each of the needed files. So I’d hit back, refresh and try it again after resubmitting the path to the required files, and same error.

The only way I’ve been able to reproduce this error is to give it a path or file name with a space in it. Apparently that’s a limitation of the file upload module in the Apache web server. Try it without any spaces in the path or file name.

I updated the online notes to add this the other day, along with a note that says that only swiss events can be processed at this time, not round robin events.

OK, I think I had these on my desktop, so naturally, the C:\Documents and Settings\ is the default, which is probably the reason. I’ll give it a shot.

Thanks

Mike,

I got access for one of the two clubs I TD for and just submitted a 6-round swiss that finished up three hours ago. Worked like a dream! I wish I could take back all that spiteful stuff I wrote earlier. Bye-bye, floppies. Hello, upload! Excellent work Mike. It even caught a wrong USCF ID that was easy to fix. Still working on getting authorized for that original club. If we can just avoid identity theft, this is the greatest thing since sliced bread!

Besides not allowing spaces, it’s entirely possible that the software may require file names to be in the old “8-dot-3” format – no more than 8 characters, followed optionally by a period and 3-character extension.

The operating system probably assigns an 8-dot-3 file name to each file, by taking the first 6 non-trivial characters and adding a twiddles and a digit. For example, “Documents and Settings” might translate into DOCUME~1 (or possibly DOCUME~2, if there is already a DOCUME~1 somewhere).

Maybe this will help you come up with a work-around in difficult cases.

Bill Smythe

I just tested a long file name, 8.3 is NOT the issue, I think it is just having spaces in the path or file name.

I’m glad you had a postive experience, Ernest I also like the fact that we caught a bad ID before the event got rated.