Triple repetition claim and ChessNoteR

Running Chess Tournaments
1

I just received a question about a scholastic player who was keeping score with a ChessNoteR. The player was trying to determine if a triple repetition has occurred. The question included a statement that the ChessNoteR could not display the game score without also displaying the graphic board display. Is this true? The player was moving back and forth in the game with the graphic display showing the position while trying to determine if a triple position had occurred.

That brings up the point about reviewing a scoresheet to determine if a triple repetition or some other point about the game had occurred. Examples of this would include illegal moves and checkmate or stalemate as well as a 50 move claim. I doubt that anyone would argue that a player cannot use his score sheet to verify making a time control or 50 move claim. This leads me to the determination it is completely legal to review their own scoresheet for what ever reason.

I also believe that using a graphical display on an electronic scoresheet is improper and is the equivalent of using a side board to do the same review. Do you agree?

The more difficult problem is what to do as a TD. Assuming a player has a device that does allow to see just the scoresheet and did review the game graphically to make a 3x claim what would you rule? I am ignoring any accusations of cheating in this question. Let us just assume we agree the player was just ignorant of the implications of using the graphical display. Some possibilities in the ruling include. 1. Allow the claim if it exists. 2. Make the player wait until the next correct 3x position exists. 3. Bar a claim for x number of moves. 4. Bar all 3x claims. The TD might also consider printing or copying the scoresheet for the continuation of the game for the player to use if the graphical display could not disable the graphic display of the board.

If it is true that the ChessNoteR cannot display only the scoresheet without the graphical display, what would you announce to your players about this device?

Regards, Ernie

2

I had also emailed ChessNoteR and got an immediate response. The device will display only the scoresheet. The TD was not aware of this. Many thanks to Joey Troy at ChessNoteR for the very quick response. I have infrequently dealt with them, but every time I have they have been fast to respond and provided accurate information.
Regards, Ernie

3

It appears that, in some cases, you may be getting conflicting answers from different sources. Either that, and/or the person asking the question and the person answering the question had different ideas as to what the question was.

For example, the answer “The device will display only the scoresheet”, which you attribute to ChessNoteR, could mean “Yes, the device can be configured so that it will display only the scoresheet, without the graphic.” Or it could mean “Yes, the device will never display the graphic whenever it is displaying the scoresheet.”

I assume that, during the normal course of the game, the graphic is displayed. In fact, how else would a player enter his move? Surely he doesn’t have to type “dxe5” onto a miniature keyboard display.

So apparently the device has an option, during play, to review the scoresheet, which should mean that the entire scoresheet (or several moves of it) can be displayed instead of the graphic board display, and that when the review is over, the scoresheet will disappear and the graphic for the current position will come back into view.

If, however, the device is also capable of displaying a graphic for the position at any earlier point in the game, then this could be regarded as a serious design flaw that would give the player an unfair advantage.

Questions like this have been asked in other threads. I have a hunch that, over time, electronic scoresheets will eventually be allowed greater latitude, even to the point of figuring out whether a triple occurrence or a 50-move situation has occurred, so that the arbiter won’t need to spend time trying to confirm it – he can just ask the computer.

Bill Smythe

4

We used the DGT board output to attempt to verify a(n incorrect) claim at the U.S. Championship last month.

Alex Relyea

5

Nice!! :slight_smile:

I assume this means the DGT board can go over the game in its memory and determine whether the current position has occurred twice previously.

That’s what electronic scoresheets should be allowed to do, too.

IIRC, both FIDE and U.S. Chess have a requirement that electronic scoresheets should NOT prevent (or even call attention to) illegal moves. I’ve always felt that rule was extremely silly. When technology exists to keep the moves legal, why not take advantage of it?

By the way, if electronic scoresheets don’t know (or aren’t allowed to use) the rules of chess, how do they know that Ke1-g1 means castling, and that the rook should then be moved also?

Bill Smythe

6

No, the DGT board transmitted the game score to a computer and the Chief Arbiter was able to compare the current position to all previous positions (in his wisdom he didn’t bother going back before the most recent material capture). All the DGT board knows about chess is enough to generate PGN code.

Alex Relyea

7

Or it means that you can tap and display the scoresheet. Which it does.